The Base Defense Game (Re: Advertising Needed!)

Hi everyone.

I'd like to start actually developing the mechanics for a placeholder game as talked about in "Advertising Needed!".

This is very much a community effort; I'd be willing to GM it, but I'm not set on that happening. This is based on my Dungeon Crawlers game, but is more similar to FoolishBalloon's game (when I first joined the forums, that was the first game I really played in, and it was easy to get in to but sandbox-y enough to be fun.) Keep in mind this game has to be simple enough that a newcomer can easily get playing without reading a wall of rules.

General Rules:

Backstory:

Inventory System:

Skills/Abilities:

Combat System:

Magic System:

Application:

Simply fill out this form.

Character name:

Race: (Any fantasy race)

Physical traits: (Eye color, etc)

Any other info: (backstory etc.)


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The idea is that players would stay in the forest, building up their base to defend against the countless monsters roaming around. Once their tech becomes too high, or the game gets stale, they can be rescued, killed off by a storm, etc. to restart the game.

This game needs a lot of work. But if it's successful, we might be able to finally retain some of our non-elite playerbase...

Thanks.

In order to learn a skill or ability (e.g. stealthy walking, high jumping, more strength), you must train in it. Simply choose an action that is related to the skill. For added clarity, you may add [Skill Name] at the end of the action.

Once you hit a certain amount of experience in a skill, you will be notified of your level up, and what kind of bonuses you will receive from it.

How would experience be given (would the amount be given based on roll, or difficulty achieved?), what would higher levels accomplish (one-handed skinning! jumping three feet higher! ability to skewer three creatures in a row!), and how would this be implemented in rolls (your jump level is 2... you jump out of the way... your extra 6-inch vertical allows you to clear most of the lizard's swing [18-inch diameter]!)?

Some suggestions.

I've played a rogue-like game recently that had a more fast-paced skill system that I enjoyed.

Combat was standard hack-and-slash. Base damage and such was solely based on equipment. A number of skills and proficiencies are chosen when you create your character. They can be upgraded when you level up. Experience is gained by killing things or crafting objects, and they give you overall experience for an overall level. After each level, one skill point can be used to upgrade a skill.

Skills are in groups such as:

Weapon Proficiency (Sword, Stave, Mace, Crossbow, Thrown, etc.): bonuses and special attacks*.
Special Skills (Deadshot, Assassination, Perception, Burglary, Psionics, etc.): special abilities*
Crafting Skills (Tinkering, Smithing, Alchemy, etc.): crafting potions/traps/mechanisms/armor/weapons/etc.

*: Powerful attacks. Use mana.***
**: summoning, critical hits, teleportation, turning enemies into gold, pretty much anything. Some use mana.***
***: Mana is gained by gaining levels, using mana-raising potion/equipment, and leveling magical skills

It was really straightforward and a lot of fun. The player chooses from a big list of skills, and then picks one to upgrade every time he levels up. Crafting levels would give the player bonuses towards traps (tinkering), strength (smithing), etc. as well as let them craft more complex items.

Magic consists of special attacks and using wands. Wands use mana, are very powerful, but burn out very fast. They are found fairly easily, though. Magic is used more as a supplement or last resource.

I'm not all that happy with the skills section either - it's just a starting point.

So what you're suggesting is that there's a preset selection of skills? It think it might be more R2D-ey if we could find a way to get more specific skills in-game rather than "oh, I have OAK LONGBOW PROFICIENCY. It gives me a +2 to attacks with that weapon." I like the idea, though. Just needs a little work.

So what you're suggesting is that there's a preset selection of skills?

A preset selection of skill branches. A Sword proficiency skill would give a base bonus to everyone with that skill for any weapon that falls under the Sword type. If the player chooses to upgrade that skill after a level, they would gain another special attack/resistance/bonus that falls under the sword group. Whether that would be a skill tree (multiple options) or branch (one option per upgrade) is up to you.

It think it might be more R2D-ey if we could find a way to get more specific skills in-game

Are you talking about specific skills as in Healing Magic, duel nunchuk wielding, Lockpicking Profiency (+2!), or Super-Hammer-Smash-of-Doom (more of a single ability or special attack)?

I mean more individualized.

Allowing people to have freedom with their skills like in Dragon's original game (that one kid got card-kenisis, for example.) As opposed to "YEW LONGBOW WIELDING", which is fairly cut and dry.

Edit: Just read over my posts and realized this isn't clear: I actually really like your idea. I'm just worried it will be too stiff.

I like the idea of a 4Xy (or otherwise... base-build...y) RtD. Not that it's an entirely new field, as Dragonchampion's original (I think) game has also moved in such a direction.

I support freeform skills. I recommend handling varying specificity by having more specific skills give higher bonuses, or being easier to get to higher bonuses with.

I don't like the idea of abilities being event-recharged (X uses per Y levels with recharge items) as opposed to time-recharged (X uses per Y rolls with recharge items). Besides general squeamishness at the concept, I think it would encourage players to either leave early or kill everything in sight.

I recommend having some natural feature (mountain, river, lake, cave, etc.) which the players can build their fortification around.

For the magic system, I recommend fairly broad but distinct categories (exempli gratia, Earth Manipulation as opposed to Terralius) as a base, possibly from which more specialized spells could grow.

Of course, I'm only an ex-Gamemaster, so my recommendations shouldn't have as much relative weight.

Thanks for your comments 8680. I'm really hoping that the community can get together and make a really solid R2D.

Along the line of community involvement: I'm interested in making this a round-robin GM game. For instance, GM A rolls 5-10 times, then passes it on to the next for another 5-10 rolls. This would help prevent burnout, and also give the new players a taste of the styles the current GMs have, to help with their decision of what game(s) to play.

What is 4Xy?

Saima wrote:Along the line of community involvement: I'm interested in making this a round-robin GM game.

Well, the game may lay untouched for a while if no-one checks it regularly. And it's tough to find GMs with extra free time (redundant?) on their hands if you know what I mean.

What is 4Xy?

4X (ish).

4X... think of Minecraft or Terraria. Resource management, base-building, item crafting, indefinite game.

Saima wrote:What is 4Xy?

Wikipedia and TVTropes have relevant articles. A common example is Civilization. But Bigkahuna's definition is much more contextually appropriate.

Then perhaps switching GMs after each game reset? I'm just trying to work something out so that people don't get tired of rolling for two games at once (if they're already rolling for another game, as I am).

How about system of "backup GMs"?
Basically, normally if one of players is not present for long time, he is npc-ed/removed and game rolls. But if GM is not present, game freezes.
So how about making system when if one GM can't do roll (lack of time) the other does it instead, and combine it with taking turns?
It would require a list, with GMs who'd volunteer written in list priority.
Like:

1. GMa
   
2. GMb
   
3. GMc

GMa is the current GM, who regularly rolls. But, if he can't do this, then he mails/PMs next GM on the list (here, GMb) so he'd do the roll.
But what if second GM couldn't do it too? Well, we have GMc.
After some number of rolls comes next round, and GMb starts rolling now as new "main", and GMa moving to bottom of the list, so it would like that:

1. GMb
   
2. GMc
   
3. GMa

And so on. This way chance of game freezing would be minimal.
Of course, story couldn't be very elaborate in such setting, but it is not supposed to be, as I get it.

That's the type of thing I'm talking about. I really like the system.

Shinobody's idea seems to be simple and effective, so I'd vote for that being used.

Perhaps to keep this from getting stale there could be a larger emphasis on base building... walls, towers, traps... nothing too complex though, since as stated earlier, this does need to be rather simple. Maybe the monsters could have a goal other than killing all the players, like capturing the base's flag?
At determined points a wave of enemies would charge, and could break down fortifications, attack the players, etc. These points could be generic attack-by-night, or at random points determined by dice roll.

Just throwing some ideas around. I don't really have any good streamlined ways of implementing them.

Hmm. Towers might be very good idea, since all kinds of tower defence are usually quite popular. Basically, if this could use some kind of "minions", weaker than players, serving as support, either in form of towers, actual soldiers, or both.
I thought that we are losing a bit of goal from our eyes, like they say "can't see the forest because of all these trees". Game is supposed to be fast-paced and simple, and complicated system of freeform skills with criticals, mana, cooldown etc. is not exactly helping. How about something more "casual", like this?
Skills system idea: Use just 4 skills for all kinds of actions. ( Yes, I know, outrageous.)
Explorer: Crafting, building, finding and acquiring resources.
Leader: Support branch. Buffing, healing, leading, debuffing, finding weakpoints, negotiating...
Hero: Physical. All kinds of combat skills go here, along with sneaking, jumping or whatnot.
Wizard: Jack of all trades. Can help other classes or substitute for them.
NOTE - This means all kinds of magic in single skill, to be clear.

How it'd work? ::

One might say such simple division would suppress player's creativity. Far from it.
Let's assume another situation: our base is under attack by Fire Elementals! What would Wizard player do?

Possible reactions:

So it actually (due to less restrictions) gives players more possibilities.

It would require some work to balance properly, but definitely would be simpler to play and learn than "Firing Yew Longbows" or "Lesser Pastry Conjuring" (that was not aimed at you, Saima, I swear!).
The only thing I'm concerned about is that with just 4 skills player might get too powerful too quickly, but this is at least a bit mitigated by relatively big d12 dice (+1 here being not as big as with d6 or d10). And of course, here Saima's "experience points" method from OP fits perfectly to slow down PCs advancement.

Shinobody, you've saved us again

Whenever we've started talking about a game like this, we get so many broad ideas that we lose focus of the original purpose.

Really like the skill system idea, but I'm worried that players will max out too fast or get overpowered (as you said).

Of course, this could be mitigated by throwing larger monsters and such at them, but that would get repetitive.

I suggest having a little side-quest system. Friendly NPCs and damsels in distress would ask for the players aid, and they'd solve tasks such as "Kill X Incredible-Evil-Slime-Lich" or "Restore X magical artifact to the Altar of Souls" or "Save X damsel-in-distress from Monstrous Dragon XVII", etc.

Rewards would be weapons, new crafting recipes, new spells, experience points, etc. And perhaps a small piece to add to an overarching storyline (to be added to by all the GMs at their whim). With a side-quest system, of course, there has to be an actual quest.

I'm in favor of a fantastical and incredibly ridiculous storyline. Whoever is rolling at the time can hand out little plot pieces that make things even more absurd. Preferably funny. This would add to unpredictability and let the GMs as well as the players enjoy the game.

This thread stagnated... Let's fix that.

Does anyone have problems with the "General Rules" section? If so, what would you fix?

Same with backstory. Should we make it more elaborate?

Comments on the inventory system?

I think we're all pretty settled on a 4-6 broad category skill system

Combat is pretty simple

Magic is implemented through the skills

Let's try to refine this into a workable R2D so we can get it rolling (pun extremely intended) sometime soon.

Edit: Along the idea of having 6 skill categories, maybe each player of the starting 6 could have a basic understanding of one of those skills? That would make them work together...

Regarding backstory, I don't think we should elaborate initially, but I do think we should eventually. I think there should be a reason why the PCs are waking up in the middle of nowhere with no memory and the ability to quickly learn any skill imaginable. Maybe they were test subjects, willing or otherwise, in some magical or super-scientific experiment; perhaps a super-soldier (or super-assassin, super-spy, whatever) program of which they are the washed-out dregs... or the rebellious paragons. Maybe they got too close to the test site of some experimental superweapon. Whatever the reason is, it should mean that someone (or something) powerful wants them dead. Maybe a medieval-fantasy empire will send some of the mages involved in one of the aforementioned experiments to clean up after themselves; perhaps these mages are summoning the giant boars and the oozes. Maybe it's actually a quasi-modern (id est, technological capabilities near or slightly exceeding ours, but not actually set in the real world) world (perhaps the giant boars and oozes are caused by the aforementioned experimental superweapon fallout) and there's a more modern empire that'll send tanks and planes along with their (presumably secret) mages to mop up the PCs.

Regarding other stuff, I think base-building should be emphasized and personal (skill) advancement deemphasized, so players don't become too powerful too quickly in the absence of a plot to give them more pressing matters to attend to.

Edit, re Saima's edit: I support that.

General Rules are fine.

Backstory... fine for the moment. I still like the idea of a "Lost" type of scenario. Wake up on a deserted land, no memory of how they got there, and then a gradual reveal of an overarching storyline -- supernatural, mythological, scientifical, or a combination.

We need to be careful not to overcomplicate things, though. Always an issue with me

Inventory, skills, and combat is fine.

Skills and Magic... the basics are fine. Since the categories haven't been decided upon, I can't say whether it would have the balance.

And about skill advancement, I agree with 8680. Base building and defending over too much personal advancement. We'd have to give them an incentive for doing so. Probably some epic siege sequences...

Wasn't the whole point of a game like this to attract people to stay instead of simply going, "All the games are full, guess I'll leave."

Do we even have the traffic to warrant a game such as this?

its_crunchtime wrote:Do we even have the traffic to warrant a game such as this?

As you said, the game was originally meant to keep the players who signed up, looked at the waiting lists, and gave up. Due to all the sign-ups that we've had recently that have NOT been from spammers, I'd say that we might.

Is anyone in the mood to type up the updated rules for this game? I'd hate to see this game die out before it starts.

Saima wrote:[img] I'd like to see this game die out before it starts.

Umm... what?

On topic, I will when I can find the time... it will be awhile though, as I'm still typing up things for my new game, so I'll be busy for a bit, with that and real-life activities.
If anyone else wants to go for it, please do. I doubt I will have the time for awhile.

A derpty derp... That's what you get when you re-write a sentence 5 times...